European Schools - FAQ | Euroguidance Ireland

The National Centre for Guidance in Education (NCGE), host of Euroguidance Ireland, will cease to operate from 1^st September 2022. The NCGE and its Management Committee, Léargas, the Department of Education, the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Solas and ETBI have been carrying out significant work since earlier this year to prepare for the reorganisation of guidance support. A Transitions Working Group and additional sub-groups have been meeting regularly to co-ordinate the reorganisation.

For further information relating to ongoing and future support in place, click HERE

In relation to Euroguidance, Léargas (former host organisation of NCGE) is not in a position to host the Euroguidance centre and will terminate the contract from 31/8/22 in line with the closure and cessation of operations of the NCGE. The Department of Education remains deeply committed to the Euroguidance programme and are in consultation with the European Commission on the designation process to find a new host for the Euroguidance centre. In the meantime, if you have any queries in relation to Euroguidance, please contact guidance@education.gov.ie

Below is a list of common FAQs and researched responses received by Euroguidance Ireland that may be of help.

Please note, every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information provided, however, it is important to note that HEIs review their information annually and changes are made accordingly. It is always best practice to double check any information with your assigned Guidance Counsellor at your appointment and research the material provided on individual HEI websites.

Please note- all information above is subject to change from time to time.

Who is eligible to avail of this service?

Children of Irish citizens, enrolled in an accredited European School, are eligible for the service being provided.

How are pre Bacc results treated when applying to Irish Universities?

This query came up a number of times in 2021. Please see our query and responses from Irish Universities below

As these preliminary grades appear in the ‘final grade’ section on the European Baccalaureate transcript, would they be considered by TCD in calculating their best 6 distinct 3/4/5-hour subjects? Or must they sit a final written and/or oral exam in them?

Is the rule simply that once the subject and grade appear in the final mark column, it will be accepted, i.e. That it doesn’t matter how or when that grade was achieved-preliminary, oral or written exam?

Most recent response from Trinity College Dublin:

Yes, it is the case that once it appears as the final grade it will be counted.

The general response from others to the same query:

A student presenting preliminary marks will appear on their transcript and this can be used to meet minimum subject requirements. However, it is important to note that students will need to achieve certain marks, in certain numbers of periods and in certain subjects to be eligible for particular programmes as per the EB section in the CAO's EU/EFTA document here: 
http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/Guidelines-EU-EFTA.pdf

In Trinity (TCD): what about the ‘specific course requirements’?

It is always important to make sure that you have met the specific course requirements.
If a course has a requirement of a grade H4 at Higher Leaving Certificate level, students presenting EB must present the subject at grade 7 or better.
To satisfy a requirement of a grade H3 at higher Leaving Certificate level students presenting EB must present the subject at grade 8 or better.

Please see table below:

Percentage Range	Grade	Points > 3hour subjects	Points 2-hour subjects
90 to 100	H1/O1	100	56
80 but less than 90	H2/O2	88	46
70 but less than 80	H3/O3	77	37
60 but less than 70	H4/O4	66	28

Please also see the worked example which will hopefully make things clear for you.

See: https://www.tcd.ie/study/apply/admission-requirements/undergraduate/index.php for further details.

In terms of students who wish to study at an institution next September from the European Schools (presenting the EB) - will there be / is it anticipated that there may be any changes to the entry requirements criteria / assessment process?

At the moment there are no advertised changes being implemented for students presenting with EB qualifications for entry.
The HEIs are currently reviewing all EU qualifications and the most up-date document will be available on the CAO system when it reopens for applications in November.
The current EU qualification document can be found at the following link http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/Guidelines-EU-EFTA.pdf for your reference.

As an EU student, should I also apply to the CAO in February of my final year (S7)?

Yes. Applicants apply as per dates in the CAO handbook.
The CAO opens each November of the final academic year.
The closing date has always been February 1^st of that year. There are ‘late application’ and ‘change of mind’ facilities, however, some courses e.g. restricted courses cannot be applied for at these later stages.

Please see the CAO website for further details: https://www.cao.ie/handbook.php?

I have noticed that some colleges/courses require a THIRD language. What happens if I don’t have one (for example Irish)?

Many (not all) courses in the NUI colleges require a third language (i.e. English, Irish and another language).
It is possible to seek an exemption from the Irish requirement, in certain circumstances.
See - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-exemptions

It is advisable to look through the prospectuses of the universities you are considering, checking the matriculation and course requirements for each course.

After a student submits their BAC results, how are they dealt with? Who converts them into points? Are the points then treated exactly the same as in the Irish system or is there a quota for 'European' students?

https://www.ucc.ie/en/study/undergrad/entryreqs/euapply/

As you will see from the above (sample) link with regard grade comparisons - if students do not take the minimum number of periods required to get higher grades they may not achieve high points as their average will be lower and they may also miss out on meeting the subject requirements for specific courses.

The results are assessed internally by the Admissions Team and points and entry requirements are checked for each applicant and each course they are applying for.

Any EU applicant is the exact same as any Irish applicant.
There is no specific quota for EU applicants outside of Ireland. That is why the conversion exists, as these students are all in the same cohort and the Irish Leaving Certificate is the benchmark.

Is there an updated conversion from European BAC results to Irish points, which indicates, for example, the equivalent of each mark in the BAC system between 85 and 90?

It’s important to note that since the points levels are determined by the current year’s Leaving Certificate results and it is not possible to forecast how many points will be necessary to gain entry this year or at any future date, points equivalencies and previous points requirements should be used as a guide for applicants only.

The most recent conversion available would indicate the below:

90=531and 85=488
See: http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/Guidelines-EU-EFTA.pdf (pg83)

Upon request, Euroguidance Ireland received the following breakdown of results:

85-488
86-494
87-504
88-517
89-524
90-531

If you’d like a more in-depth explanation regarding how these marks are calculated, the calculator is based on statistics comparing the percentage of each population getting above the various grades so, for example, if 90 in the EB meant you were in the top 10% of EB candidates HEIs would look for the points score that would put you in the top 10% of Leaving Certificate candidates and equate the two.

Please note, although most HEIs calculate ‘points’ in the same way, Trinity College operate a different system.

In Trinity (TCD): are 3-hour (period) maths students entitled to get a maximum of 100 points like a regular higher level subject or is the maximum we are awarded only 56 points? (this does not include the extra 25 points all maths students get)

Students are ranked on the basis of their six best distinct recognised subjects from one sitting of the EB Exam.
Points for each 3, 4 &5hr subject = the points awarded to the Higher-Level Leaving Certificate grade in the same percentage range.

Bonus points for maths: 25 additional points will be awarded for a grade D/6 or better on 3, 4 or 5-hour (period) mathematics.

In Trinity (TCD): they take into account subjects students’ study 3 hours or more a week. Does "3 hours" mean 3 periods or 180 minutes at least?

Trinity admissions have provided the following response to this query:

'We assess what they are listed as on the transcript, therefore if the 3 period subjects are shown on the EU Bacc results transcript as 3 hour subjects then they will be assessed as such’

This query is a very valid one as the language used can be confusing.
Especially when the guideline document most Higher Education Institutes follow (http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/Guidelines-EU-EFTA.pdf, pg85) clearly reference periods, whereas Trinity refer to hours https://www.tcd.ie/study/apply/admission-requirements/undergraduate/.

Euroguidance Ireland has flagged this with them.

Which university should I choose? What courses are available? What are the best courses?

It is important to ensure the following:

If you have specific courses in mind, check that your subject choices and levels match the entry requirements for these courses e.g. you will require a certain level of English; you may require a certain level of math; a specific language or a specific science subject etc.
Strongly consider picking ‘distinct’ subjects, where possible. Some HEIs will not consider a subject that is studied and studied at advanced level as two distinct subjects. (e.g. L2 and Advanced L2 etc.)
Where possible, to keep as many ≥3-period subjects as possible. These convert towards more points.
Where possible, try to keep up ≥ 5-period math as it is awarded bonus points in several colleges. Trinity College award these bonus points for ≥ 3 period math.
If concerned about high point courses, it is always advisable to expand your search to similar courses in other institutions and other courses within the same field.

For more see - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-subject-choice

Is my subject choice NOW important?

You should consider what third level courses you might be interested in when you leave school.
If you have specific courses in mind, check that your subject choices and levels match the entry requirements for these courses.

If you don’t know what you want to study yet, it is advisable to take a good mixture of subjects, a language and a science subject may be important.
Choose what you enjoy and what you are good at. Reviewing previous aptitude and Interest Profiler results may help you in determining the career path that might suit you.

For more see - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-subject-choice

Who assesses the EU applicant?

The individual HEI’s assess all EU applicants and the CAO issue offers to applicants.
The results are assessed internally by the Admissions Team and points and entry requirements are checked for each applicant and each course they are applying for.
Any EU applicant is the exact same as any Irish applicant. There is no specific quota for EU applicants outside of Ireland that is why the conversion exists, as these students are all in the same cohort and the Irish Leaving Certificate is the benchmark.

What is the 'points system'?

Details regarding the points system used by HEIs to score applicants, the minimum entry requirements to each university and to particular courses, and agreed entry requirements for applicants who present qualifications other than the Irish Leaving Certificate (e.g. other EU/EFTA school-leaver qualifications) can be found in the CAO Handbook on the CAO website.

See - https://www.cao.ie/handbook.php
See - https://www.iua.ie/for-students/eu-students/practical-information/

The CAO - What is it?

The Central Applications Office (CAO) centrally processes applications for entry to the first year of undergraduate courses in Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) in the Republic of Ireland.
It also issues offers to applicants, when instructed to do so by HEIs, and records acceptances.

The CAO processes, on behalf of the HEIs, school-leavers presenting qualifications from other EU/EFTA countries as well as applications from Irish school-leavers presenting Leaving Certificate qualifications.

For more see - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-cao

Describing the EB on the CAO: How should I describe the EB on the CAO application? Do I need to send some additional information?

Applicants apply as per dates in CAO Handbook.

Select: Other School Leaving Exams (e.g. Baccalaureate, Scottish Exams, pre-1985 Irish & UK exams, Leaving Exams outside of UK & Ireland, Leaving Cert Applied, Level 3 BTEC, GNVQs, VCEs, Irish Matric Exams, etc.) when completing the initial application page.

Baccalaureate can be included in the following section in the application
'Enter your other school leaving exams:'
A drop-down menu will appear

Irish as an ONL: If I am studying Irish as an ONL, where do I document this?

Exams to be taken and exams previously taken should be mentioned in the CAO application.

Timing: How should students proceed when EB results become available?

Applicants apply as per dates in CAO Handbook.

Select - Other School Leaving Exams (e.g. Baccalaureate, Scottish Exams, pre-1985 Irish & UK exams, Leaving Exams outside of UK & Ireland, Leaving Cert Applied, Level 3 BTEC, GNVQs, VCEs, Irish Matric Exams, etc.) when completing the initial application page.

Results should be posted to CAO when available or you can have your exam provider arrange to have results transferred to CAO electronically, please check with the exam provider.

Can a student be told of the points allocated in the conversion?

If a student wishes to know their calculation, they can email the HEI directly to request a pre-assessment, which may be given, provided they are able to supply up-to-date results (i.e. the same results they submitted to the CAO, for accuracy).
They can inform the applicant, but this does not constitute an offer in any way.
The points for courses change annually which can be disheartening for students who know their points score in advance and may have been basing their expectations off the previous year's points.

Offers: Is the offer schedule the same?

Yes, the offer schedule is the same.

Conversions / Requirements: In terms of the conversion process for points & additional course requirements (applying for Medicine/ Restricted courses with portfolios etc.) Do the CAO have an input here?

HEIs (only) determine the points awarded and entry requirements for admission.
For restricted courses see - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-restricted-courses

Exemptions: How does the CAO communicate the status of the applicant (i.e. that I do or don't require an exemption) to the NUI / Colleges and the applicant?

It is up to the applicant to determine if an exemption is required, you may contact the NUI or any of the colleges you are interested in applying to clarify this.

If you apply for a NUI exemption, this information will be passed on to CAO by NUI.

http://www.cao.ie/index.php?page=exemptions&bb=studentresources

Also see - https://euroguidance.ie/resource/european-schools-exemptions

Is it taken into account at all that, in addition to first language, second language and maths, BAC students have other mandatory subjects that they cannot discard?

i.e. history, geography, philosophy and sports, which even if they count for less, can bring down a student’s marks for admission purposes?

Having consulted with one of the HEIs, please see some clarification regarding this query below:

Students need to meet the minimum requirements when applying with the EB, which is an overall of 60% (in 2020).
They must then satisfy the points requirements and the subject requirements for the courses they have applied for; the compulsory subjects of the EB cannot be ignored as they form the overall grade used to assess for points.

Is it taken into account that you only get one shot at the BAC, i.e. you cannot repeat it, so you can never 'improve' your marks for admittance to high point faculties?

Having consulted with one of the HEIs, please see some clarification regarding this query below:

I am studying 33 hours per week (which is the recommended amount for the European Baccalaureate). I am concerned that this may not be enough for some courses. Would you have advice on whether I should take the maximum hours allowed, which is 35 hours?

We cannot advise directly what would be appropriate here.
It will depend on interests and ability. If considering taking on extra subjects/ hours, it would always be advisable to discuss this with the school and in-house guidance service in advance.

It is important to ensure the following:

If you have specific courses in mind, check that their subject choices and levels match the entry requirements for these courses. For example - you will require a certain level of English; you may require a certain level of math; a specific language or a specific science subject etc.

Strongly consider picking ‘distinct’ subjects, where possible. Many HEIs will not consider a subject that is studied at 2 x levels as two distinct subjects. (e.g. L2 and Advanced L2 etc.)

Where possible, to keep as many ≥3-period subjects as possible. These convert towards more points.

Where possible, try to keep up ≥ 5-period math as it is awarded bonus points in several colleges. Trinity College award these bonus points for ≥ 3 period math.

If concerned about high point courses, it is always advisable to expand your search to similar courses in other institutions and other courses within the same field.